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Post by chasensfo on Jun 25, 2023 21:14:15 GMT -5
Right? Imagine being that triggered by a joke lmfao.
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Post by chasensfo on Jul 3, 2023 17:41:44 GMT -5
Well the traffic is still an issue, but a well-known scenery developer is figuring out the details of allowing Raphael and myself to back-date his commercial scenery, which will then be able to be purchased from the MSFS marketplace. His user interfaces already allow for changing options like animated people/traffic and stuff, so he agreed that since eventually we'll have this traffic working, it is a good idea to have an easy to use config menu to switch between years so that the airports are properly coded for 1998, 2003, etc traffic as required. He's also given me the files required to fix up his current airports to ensure everything parks in the right places in the modern scenery. He said most developers don't bother to code AI gates anymore because MSFS is so wonky with the gate overlaps (and now they added GSE vehicle parking spots to each gate which looks pretty but is further messing up the gate parking in the ADE files) and what not preventing many gates from being used by many larger airliners to start with. Which, in turn, causes AI planes to ignore assignments. My true feeling is MSFS2020 was a "BETA" game all along and that MSFS2024 will address most of these issues. Sadly, as they update the game, the AI actually flies more and more fake. They have like 2-3 second takeoff runs now and then rocket into the damn sky. It's so fake. Wtf. But I see this platform for what it can/will be with some elbow grease from the AI world, not what it is now. In the meantime, hoping to get RetroAI model matching with FSTL for VATSIM and what not along with placing static versions of the retro AI planes on proper gates at airports, so at least if you fly into, say, MSP, you'll see proper Northwest planes for the 80s, 90s, 2000s or whatever on the right gates with Concourse E filled with USAir, United, American, Delta etc and at least have some immersion beyond flying a retro plane with modern traffic or zero traffic. There has actually been a lot of interest from most people I've spoken with. You'd be surprised how many of these commercial vendors we all know the names of actually are familiar with this forum and the projects by people like Brian and myself. And how they are equally frustrated with the "I know how to help you but I won't" attitude of so many in this hobby.  |
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Post by bensplanes on Jul 3, 2023 19:05:37 GMT -5
More and more I feel my grip on P3D fading away.. I think I'm going to jump the boat when the next sim drops. (Or maybe when CaptainSim ports the TriStar  ) The scenery thing sounds promising, would be sooo convenient to swap airport dates with one click rather than juggling textures, modified BGLs, and other related junk. Thanks for the update! |
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Post by chasensfo on Jul 4, 2023 5:58:12 GMT -5
More and more I feel my grip on P3D fading away.. I think I'm going to jump the boat when the next sim drops. (Or maybe when CaptainSim ports the TriStar ) The scenery thing sounds promising, would be sooo convenient to swap airport dates with one click rather than juggling textures, modified BGLs, and other related junk. Thanks for the update! The above screenshot is stock MSFS, just an add-on plane. Installing most addons is drag and drop now (results in lots of extra files sometimes to do it that way, but nice to have as an option), and the groundwork is there for a living world with retro GSE, everything from static to meeting and servicing AI aircraft, retro cities, etc. The main selling point to me, though, is the performance. My PC is considered "low-end" by the MSFS specs, but lower high-end as far as most games go. I can run MSFS looking like the above and as long as no more than 150 or so AI aircraft load up, I'll get 20FPS+ minimum. In the screenshot above doing OKC-LAS, I was getting 60FPS+ as maybe 50 AI were spawned or less. Last time I loaded P3Dv5 to do MSP-ORD in the 90s, I was getting 5-15FPS, huge load times, and the sim had to "melt" everything outside of the airport area to prioritize keeping my aircraft, departure airport, and the AI looking realistic. Immersive enough around the airports on the ground, but the entire time airborne felt like FS98. All to get way less performance, too. So I uninstalled everything I don't need to keep for AI and scenery development. It sucks to taxi out in a RenoAir MD-80 behind a few modern ERJ-175s and watch them rocket into the sky by the first taxiway intersection then level out in a way that would break people's necks on the overhead bin, but the performance and flight physics at least make that stuff fun. It'll blow your mind how few add-ons you need. I have 2 AI-engine addons similar to AI Controller for P3D and if I want live traffic, I run FSTL. And maybe the MSFS Map Enhancer if I'm doing a daylight flight in an area well covered by Google Maps (switches graphics from Bing to Goolge). That's it. 0-2 addons needed for me to get the best experience while P3D I'd use REX SkyForce, ActiveSKy, SuperTrafficBoard,etc etc just to get the sim immersive. Not to mention how hard it is to install all the scenery and what not sometimes. If P3D comes out with a v7 that out-of-the-box is 80% of what you need the way MSFS is now, and it has at least similar graphics, I'd jump over in a heart beat if it meant all the AI would work and editing airport ADEs was so simple again. But looking at v6, I think P3D has peaked. Lol. Trust me, even with modern AI or empty airports making me barely fly retro aircraft these days... This I miss:  This I can't ever deal with again LOL:  |
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Post by bensplanes on Jul 4, 2023 6:42:37 GMT -5
The first thing that came to mind when I saw that first screen shot was the framerate. CaptainSim 737-200 in ORD with traffic? Must feel like a slideshow.
Yeah, maybe the AI thing needs a little more TLC before I swap. Hopefully Asobo takes a peek into the matter, surely a few of the 500 or so working on the next platform have something to do with the AI engine.
What is scenery development like in MSFS, how does it compare to ADE in P3D?
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Post by chasensfo on Jul 5, 2023 3:46:04 GMT -5
The first thing that came to mind when I saw that first screen shot was the framerate. CaptainSim 737-200 in ORD with traffic? Must feel like a slideshow. Yeah, maybe the AI thing needs a little more TLC before I swap. Hopefully Asobo takes a peek into the matter, surely a few of the 500 or so working on the next platform have something to do with the AI engine. What is scenery development like in MSFS, how does it compare to ADE in P3D? Other than AIG and MAIW, LIVE traffic is all anyone cares about, honestly. So don't hold your breath lol. It'll be people on these forums or no one at all is my bet. Still, imagine that ORD scene but more realistic and with 30FPS+, that's MSFS. Optimized so well vs P3D is all. So much potential for a living AI world...but AI issues have been near the top of the list since the game came out in 2020. It's 2023, halfway thru it, and most of the concerns from 2020 are open or WORSE than they used to be, let alone resolved. I think Asobo is just saying the AI community can deal with it, they clearly don't care. At all. Besides the issues of AI spots having an invisible radius around them beyond the parking radius that renders gates not able to be used by AI planes, it is very hard to edit payware ADEs. Stock? It is AMAZING how easy it is to make an airport look very very nice compared to P3D with way less work, and all live in game in "developer" mode without addons (tho scenery object libraries help of course). One can take any stock airport (which it is worth noting they are ten-fold better than stock P3D airports usually to begin with) and can make the airport retro and backdated in a fraction of the time. For 3rd party scenery, most are hard to impossible to edit without the developer giving you the files you need for now. Which sucks. Kai Tak they made a ton of the heavy gates medium, and I can't edit it. Again, even with all of this, you gotta believe me that the physics and performance still make it better than P3Dv5 by a long shot now. For everything EXCEPT Retro AI. lol. Which sucks for all of us...but obviously you know how much I love being immersed in the 80s, 90s, 2000s etc. So the fact I uninstalled P3Dv5 more or less and have no way to enjoy any of the files I made for the time being tells you a lot about how far behind P3D has become. I waited 1.5 years to make the switch. The AI worked before, I'll get it working again. The only issue is everyone helping me out on this project also has a life. I only mean that in the sense that most developers I meet in the FS world live and breath this stuff, where as myself, Raphael, etc all do a lot of stuff in life and this is just one hobby of ours, though of course we are very passionate. For me it's aviation history, and AI is part of it. So no timeline unless Asobo one day addresses the 1,000+ direct messages on their support forums complaining about all this. But again, in 3 years, they have not. They only make AI planes less realistic LOL.  |
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Post by bensplanes on Jul 5, 2023 22:04:58 GMT -5
I think we are both in the unfortunate circumstance where AI is a big necessity and it's hard to deprogram something like that. A man can dream for AI improvement.
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Post by warsawchopin2333 on Jul 12, 2023 11:23:12 GMT -5
Is there a way to make the traffic myself in msfs? I know it's tricky, but I'm desperate to get retro ai in msfs!
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Post by chasensfo on Jul 12, 2023 19:29:44 GMT -5
Is there a way to make the traffic myself in msfs? I know it's tricky, but I'm desperate to get retro ai in msfs! The AI FlightPlanner method which there are tutorials for that pop up quick with "Custom AI MSFS" searches in Google is working for some people, but not for me. A few people got my traffic working after doing random things but can't narrow it down to how they managed to do it. If you can figure it out, basically everything but the L-1011 and DC-10 that is major to the 80s-2000s I have done unofficial conversions of by cannibalizing other MSFS capable planes and their data (like using the MD-80 to get the MD-87/90 flying for example) so if anyone who isn't a p***k (I say this because many in the community who DO know don't want us to get the secret out to the "common user" who will then stop using their product) figures out how to get MSFS reading .bgl traffic files post-Sim Update #12...we are all set to enjoy MSFS retro AI. I don't have much time these days as I'm working on projects with developers here and there where I do have time, but I can offer advice of course. I had someone figure out the code\structure of AIG/FSTL and how they inject traffic into the sim, but that wouldn't really work for us manual install custom AI folks as well, it'd be so much work that going with JustFlight or something would be the same result but easier. They won't use FAIB models and the like tho, so the issue with JustFlight is that even though they are totally interested, someone would have to repaint literally everything onto their own custom models. So, the best solution is we stick to the old fashioned .bgls we've used since FS9 and figure out what changed with the sim updates to render them useless 2 years into MSFS being out. I say, go for it! Once this issue is solved, the transition from FS9-P3Dv6 to MSFS as far as retro traffic goes will be way, way, way easier than it was for FS9-P3Dv3 users going to the 64-bit P3Dv4-6 versions. Especially since it is very simple to convert most AI planes that work in FSX right on over to MSFS. |
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Post by warsawchopin2333 on Jul 13, 2023 6:32:10 GMT -5
Would this also work with the legacy importer and fs traffic from just flight?
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Post by therealfjm on Sept 29, 2023 16:19:27 GMT -5
Hi All, Long time lurker here. Mostly as I did not have anything to add. Recently been working on using FS Traffic as my "retro" flight manager. Finally starting to have some success. I have models from the usuals (IVAO, FS Traffic, AIG). I am using the FS Traffic manager as the aircraft and plan manager as well as the injector for retro traffic. Using FSLTL for modern. I have started stripping out all of the modern traffic and routes and testing my new ones. Using KMLU as my initial testbed as it had limited traffic within the base FS Traffic and a simple field to spawn into. Got it to where it is accepting models and textures from their initial install locations. Always finicky with the .json files but once the platform accepts the model you are usually in good shape. Just wondering if anyone has tried something like this? I initially went down the AIFP route but couldn't get any consistency (a lot of work for a lot of disappearing aircraft.) This seems to be working out the best. Any other successes out there yet?   |
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Post by chasensfo on Sept 29, 2023 22:00:40 GMT -5
Hi All, Long time lurker here. Mostly as I did not have anything to add. Recently been working on using FS Traffic as my "retro" flight manager. Finally starting to have some success. I have models from the usuals (IVAO, FS Traffic, AIG). I am using the FS Traffic manager as the aircraft and plan manager as well as the injector for retro traffic. Using FSLTL for modern. I have started stripping out all of the modern traffic and routes and testing my new ones. Using KMLU as my initial testbed as it had limited traffic within the base FS Traffic and a simple field to spawn into. Got it to where it is accepting models and textures from their initial install locations. Always finicky with the .json files but once the platform accepts the model you are usually in good shape. Just wondering if anyone has tried something like this? I initially went down the AIFP route but couldn't get any consistency (a lot of work for a lot of disappearing aircraft.) This seems to be working out the best. Any other successes out there yet? You'll have to explain because I am totally unfamiliar. View AttachmentView AttachmentHey very cool, I am not familiar with this injector you speak of. It allows you to inject .bgl flightplans like the plans compiled from this site? Are those the FSX 727 models or did someone in the packages you mentioned make an MSFS conversion? For FSLTL, I've added dozens and dozens of aircraft so I get everything from A310s to C17s to A340-600s and CRJ-200s buzzing around along with every bizjet I could find a MSFS or FSX model of and I also added many of the GA designators for small props (but mostly using generic models for those). Now I go to a place like VNY and it'll load so much GA traffic that it really finally feels like a proper GA sim. But man, once you add all those GA types to be displayed in your sim, you'll get completely locked up on FPS in major metropolitans like LAX where its trying to load hundreds and hundreds of aircraft to filter through between all the GA airfields lol. For this reason, I've found out many people say not to add GA or Military or flying by an area heavy with that kind of traffic + the airliners will lock you up badly. It is awesome for live traffic tho. Can't wait to be able to inject .bgls tho, as there is a time for live traffic (if you want modern), and there is a time for flightplans as radar coverage is poor in Africa and parts of the Middle East and if you want to fly to those places when it is the middle of the night in local time, you don't see anything move obviously with live traffic. Tho MSFS is still trash for AI overall (with the flight dynamics getting WORSE with recent updates as now they approach the airport flat or nose-down like a CRJ-200 then they flare, roll out for 2-3 seconds, and then crawl up the runway until they take an unrealistically early exit and often then disappear as they become gridlocked with the departures since they're in a fake spot for the runway config in use), MSFS does do a great job letting you load up tons of AI and only blurring textures that are far away or out of view to keep FPS high. I had the max 200 planes loaded here at OIIE and was getting 40FPS+ on a modest system with medium graphics on a mid-range system (RTX3060 but a CPU that was top of the line 10 years ago and now way behind). In P3Dv5, this would have been a slideshow. V6 I hear is way better but now the benchmark for me is having real-world graphics, which I really hope the P3D series does. If they do that before MSFS cleans up the AI behavior mess, I bet they'll get back hundreds of customers.  Once traffic can be injected again via AIG Traffic Controller or the ways you have figured out in the post above, we'll have one hell of an immersive retro experience.   |
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Post by chasensfo on Jan 2, 2024 0:49:00 GMT -5
Worked on getting traffic at STL a little, it is very, very hard to get widebodies to pop up though due to current MSFS gate restrictions. There should be 4 767s here, I got 1 to load. LOL. At least I figured out how to get them to show up, but again, its probably best to just wait for the AI Traffic Controller update to come out as it'd be a lot of work to convert entire plans this way.   |
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) The scenery thing sounds promising, would be sooo convenient to swap airport dates with one click rather than juggling textures, modified BGLs, and other related junk. Thanks for the update!
