Spotting at JFK, 80's

[Ralf Maylin]

[Christian Page, RAI]

Nice! I need to send you my JFK AFCAD - it's almost done, I built it from a 1976 Jeppesen chart, but the terminals would be much the same in the 1980's. You have TWA and Pan Am at the American terminal!

[727pilot]

Great shots, Ralf! Especially the ones where you got two aircraft in one picture!

[chrisP]

mouth-watering!

[Ralf Maylin]

Thanks for your comments. The pictures can't show the amazing enviroment that Retro AI really creates. The aircrafts were beauties those days. One note about the TWA L1011, it was at hold by "AI Smooth" while the jet in the background is on final.

PS: A JFK AFCAD would be great.

[ElliottD]

Is there a retro scenery available for JFK? (Sorry im relatively new)

[tgibson]

Hi,

Not that I'm aware of, although only the International Arrivals building and the NWA/Braniff terminal need to be recreated, AFAIK. In the pic above of the Pan Am 727 taking off you see the fingers (left to right) belonging to American, American, Delta (originally, at least), United, and Eastern (has the EAL terminal been replaced in FS2004 default?). Then continuing on counterclockwise was the old Northwest/Braniff/Northeast terminal (replaced in FS2004?), followed by Pan Am and the International Arrivals building (the latter has definitely been replaced in FS2004). That was followed by TWA, National, and BOAC/Air Canada. Again, they are all pretty much as they were in the 80's except for the two (?) that were replaced. I have no idea when the cargo area moved from the foreground of the shot above to the current location at the far left, out of the picture.

[tgibson]

Oh, and one other thing. The taxiway layout and the aprons are also pretty much OK for the 80's and 90's, but earlier than that they were quite different (i.e. smaller).

[Christian Page, RAI]

tgibson said:

Hi,

Not that I'm aware of, although only the International Arrivals building and the NWA/Braniff terminal need to be recreated, AFAIK. In the pic above of the Pan Am 727 taking off you see the fingers (left to right) belonging to American, American, Delta (originally, at least), United, and Eastern (has the EAL terminal been replaced in FS2004 default?). Then continuing on counterclockwise was the old Northwest/Braniff/Northeast terminal (replaced in FS2004?), followed by Pan Am and the International Arrivals building (the latter has definitely been replaced in FS2004). That was followed by TWA, National, and BOAC/Air Canada. Again, they are all pretty much as they were in the 80's except for the two (?) that were replaced. I have no idea when the cargo area moved from the foreground of the shot above to the current location at the far left, out of the picture.

The old Eastern terminal was replaced in FS2004. The old Braniff/MW/NE terminal is there, it was incorporated into the old Worldport after Delta bought all those PA assents after the '91 collapse. By 1976, Braniff had moved to the northern concourse of the old United (now AA) terminal. Delta was in the NW/NE terminal by then. I'm assuming as a result of the NE takeover in 1972. Allegheny also occupied part of that terminal, based on photos I've seen. Cargo was north of 13L/31R as well as between the two runways. PA, United, AA, BOAC/BA, Eastern, and KLM were between the two. TWA was also, but that was torn down and thus removed from FS2004. PA and TWA maintenance was on the north side of 13R/31L Lockheed had a big base on the northern side, which was also where Seaboard World, Flying Tigers, JAL, and Lufthansa were located.

[ElliottD]

Found this picture in an encylopedia dated 1967. Sorry about the page divide but you can make out the eastern terminal at least lol

[tgibson]

Hi,

Wow, that's a great pic. Thanks.

In the upper right you can see Pan Am's circular terminal. Clockwise from that was the BN/NW/NE terminal (note the concrete "parasols" over the roadway entrance), Eastern (two fingers, and one gate was Mohawk), United (the short Delta finger is in the page gutter), American (two fingers), BOAC/Air Canada, the "temporary terminal" (quonset huts), the area where the National terminal will be built (site of the original terminal), TWA (two fingers), the International terminals (outer wings of next building) and the International Arrivals terminal (arch and U shaped building in the center). The tower is that black building just land side of the arch. The maintenance building is just above the American terminal in this shot, with the circular fountain to the upper right of that.

Notice how close the taxiways are to the circular Pan Am terminal - when they expanded the airport, these taxiways were moved much further out to allow room for the PAA terminal expansion seen in FS2004. I believe the taxiway was moved about to the location of that parallel runway (at this point probably just a taxiway) just out from the taxiway.

[Christian Page, RAI]

Tom, et al.,

There's something in the photo that I didn't pick up on at first. The runway just above the PAA terminal and the IAB is the old 7/25 - 4L/22R appears just partially in the far upper right corner of the picture. 7/25 was closed for expansion and the apron and taxiways moved to form an almost square-like pattern near at the intersection of 4L/22R and 13R/31L. This threw me when you brought up the expansions, Tom, I was thinking I was looking at 4L/22R above the terminals and could not figure out how there was room for the taxiway movement, ramp/terminal expansion shown on my 1976 chart. Then I remembered that part of 7/25 appears on the chart as a taxiway Y - running the line of the old runway across the ramp puts it in exactly the location seen in the photo. So if anyone got confused about that like I did, there's the explanation! All of 7/25 was removed, save for the small portion now used as taxiway Y, what wasn't retained now sits under the modern-day ramp. Not sure when that was done, but I'm guessing not terribly long after this photo was taken - since the expansion of the IAB ramp as well as the PAA Worldport was to handle 747s, which were in the design phase during the time of the photo (assuming it's indeed 1967 - I know sometimes encyclopedias used older photos here and there.