qxductape
Gate Agent
QX, now with flights over Jason house every 30 mins
Posts: 60
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Post by qxductape on May 1, 2007 18:04:52 GMT -5
I know that in the Aircraft file of a flight plan the second set of numbers is supposed to be the air speed. In some flight plans the aircraft file for a DC9-30 might say AC#1,200,"AI DC9-30 XYZ" but in others it might say AC#1,430,"AI DC9-30 ABC". What does that do to the flight plan is you change that number? Is it bad to fool with it, or because most the Retro AI have already preset arrival times in the flight plan it changes nothing? Just trying to figure out eceptionally fast CV-580 times... Or so how it appears. Thanks for any help you can give.
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Post by chrisP on May 1, 2007 20:28:44 GMT -5
AFAIK, FS9 doesn't "fly" an AI aircraft all the way from departure to destination; they just vanish/reappear at a preset distance from the departure/arrival airport. The AC speed has something to do with the airspeed of the aircraft _once_it_reappears_; as a consequence, setting Mach 2 as an AC speed for the Concorde will make it impossible to descend from cruise alt. without turning into a lawn dart.
Exit runway when able
Christian
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Post by Christian Page, RAI on May 1, 2007 20:36:56 GMT -5
AFAIK, FS9 doesn't "fly" an AI aircraft all the way from departure to destination; they just vanish/reappear at a preset distance from the departure/arrival airport. The AC speed has something to do with the airspeed of the aircraft _once_it_reappears_; as a consequence, setting Mach 2 as an AC speed for the Concorde will make it impossible to descend from cruise alt. without turning into a lawn dart. Exit runway when able Christian In at least some cases, they do fly the route - I raced a company (Braniff) flight from KDFW to KMCI and he was with me all the way. I could see him out the window and ATC was would advise me of his presence. He took off before me, but I poured on the coal and landed in Kansas City first. Maybe there's a radius to the flyable plane that controls the AI?
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swag
Ramp Rat
Posts: 37
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Post by swag on May 2, 2007 1:56:25 GMT -5
I think they disappear not a set distance from the airport but from the user's plane. Something around 100 nm if i remember correctly.
That means if you follow one particular route or if that route is all within 100 nm of your aircraft then the plane won't disappear. The obvious example are military planes just doing a couple of touch and goes and then landing again at the departure airport.
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Post by jetstar on May 2, 2007 2:06:59 GMT -5
I know that in the Aircraft file of a flight plan the second set of numbers is supposed to be the air speed. In some flight plans the aircraft file for a DC9-30 might say AC#1,200,"AI DC9-30 XYZ" but in others it might say AC#1,430,"AI DC9-30 ABC". What does that do to the flight plan is you change that number? Is it bad to fool with it, or because most the Retro AI have already preset arrival times in the flight plan it changes nothing? Just trying to figure out eceptionally fast CV-580 times... Or so how it appears. Thanks for any help you can give. In FS2004 when the @ sign is used to set the departure and arrival times there is a bug that if you use the real aircraft speed like in FS2002 aircraft do not arrive at the airport they just appear at the gate 15 mins before departure. I had this problem when I first found AI. You do get a certain amount of traffic, but nothing like what should be present. The way around this is to set the aircraft speed lower. For props its between 100 & 150, for jets its 200 to 250. This gives the best results. I hope that helps a bit. Paul Or you could remove the @ sign and use the correct speed.
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qxductape
Gate Agent
QX, now with flights over Jason house every 30 mins
Posts: 60
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Post by qxductape on May 2, 2007 14:47:48 GMT -5
In FS2004 when the @ sign is used to set the departure and arrival times there is a bug that if you use the real aircraft speed like in FS2002 aircraft do not arrive at the airport they just appear at the gate 15 mins before departure. I had this problem when I first found AI. You do get a certain amount of traffic, but nothing like what should be present. The way around this is to set the aircraft speed lower. For props its between 100 & 150, for jets its 200 to 250. This gives the best results. I hope that helps a bit. Paul Or you could remove the @ sign and use the correct speed. Thanks Paul! Your response kind of validates what I have observed. Since I spend 99% of my FS time in either the CV-580 or Dash-8's flying the KPDX-KSEA or KORD-KMKE-KGRB shuttles, I am always in that 100 NM radius, and get to see a lot of the AI quirks. Armed with this info, I am going to slow some planes down, Thanks again for the help. Stefan-Ductape
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Post by Andy on May 3, 2007 16:24:12 GMT -5
I know that in the Aircraft file of a flight plan the second set of numbers is supposed to be the air speed. In some flight plans the aircraft file for a DC9-30 might say AC#1,200,"AI DC9-30 XYZ" but in others it might say AC#1,430,"AI DC9-30 ABC". What does that do to the flight plan is you change that number? Is it bad to fool with it, or because most the Retro AI have already preset arrival times in the flight plan it changes nothing? Just trying to figure out eceptionally fast CV-580 times... Or so how it appears. Thanks for any help you can give. In FS2004 when the @ sign is used to set the departure and arrival times there is a bug that if you use the real aircraft speed like in FS2002 aircraft do not arrive at the airport they just appear at the gate 15 mins before departure. I had this problem when I first found AI. You do get a certain amount of traffic, but nothing like what should be present. The way around this is to set the aircraft speed lower. For props its between 100 & 150, for jets its 200 to 250. This gives the best results. I hope that helps a bit. Paul Or you could remove the @ sign and use the correct speed. Thanks for that explanation. Does this mean that if I encounter a KLAX-KJFK flight over Iowa, it is really not there at the realistically correct time because it is computing the route at, say 250? Not a big deal but it is unrealistic. Also, it this true airspeed, indicated airspeed, or ground speed? Andy
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qxductape
Gate Agent
QX, now with flights over Jason house every 30 mins
Posts: 60
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Post by qxductape on May 3, 2007 19:34:59 GMT -5
Paul: Tried it out last night, you were as the say at HJG, "Spot On".... Andy: I think the what happens when you use the @ sign the plane disappears at some point along the flight route, then appears right before touchdown. In FS 2002 the higher speeds worked well but in FS 9 those faster IAS speeds it resulted in some Mach speed looking times. A really good example is KMKE-KMSP, flight which in real life takes on good day 45 mins, mostly 55 to 1 hr. The flt pln in question had 22 minute flt time, and you know what, the plane left KMKE on time and showed-up in KMSP on time. The plane disappeared somewhere a little west of Waukesha WI, and showed-up again out of thin air at the point to catch the Glide slope. Now I Kris will vouch that I am a "Odd Little Fellow" and do some not so mainstream stuff. (I am sure is the result of growing-up in a Tar Paper shack in the UP.) The point I am saying is "How many of us flying FS spend time chasing AI planes with a stop watch and care that they fly flight plan according to Hoyle." Nope I think the mainstream just cares that the airport has planes from our favorite Airline, and they come and go reasonably according to schedule. See I am a sentimental old coot, and just love flying around watching "Herman" soaring around the Great Lakes, and when he vanishes, it makes me sad . Also since I have en grained in my brain the NCA schedule Circa 1968-1973 which is not all that different from the great 1975 schedule here. I kind of sneak and wait in the clouds for Herman to appear! ;D I know pretty pathetic isn't it???
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Post by Andy on May 3, 2007 22:37:06 GMT -5
So, is it indicated airspeed or true airspeed?
Andy
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qxductape
Gate Agent
QX, now with flights over Jason house every 30 mins
Posts: 60
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Post by qxductape on May 4, 2007 2:36:09 GMT -5
So, is it indicated airspeed or true airspeed? Andy IAS.....
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Post by jetstar on May 4, 2007 4:17:27 GMT -5
Hi Andy.
There are a few quirks in the FS2004 AI engine which put planes where they should never be.
I have seen US domestic flights overflying Japan!! It does not happen often, but it does happen.
Using the @ sign and the slower speeds will give you accurate traffic where it matters most, at the airports.
If you follow an AI plane it will fly all the way to destination as long as you stay in the 100 mile radius, otherwise it will just disappear.
You see the 100 mile rule kick in when you first start FS. All those AI planes on the same route "mixing it" with one another until they separate.
Paul
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Post by Ralf Maylin on May 4, 2007 4:28:56 GMT -5
When I like to do some "AI spotting" I usually fire up FS, go to the location, then leave it for at least half an hour.
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Post by rpm on May 4, 2007 10:28:15 GMT -5
Here's an answer Tom Gibson posted in the TTools forum over at AVSIM afew years ago, in response to the @symbol, aircraft speeds and aircraft popping in and out :
"If these flight plans use the @ symbol (shown as "Fixed ETA" in AITM) then there could be another problem. If the arrival time shown is very different from the "calculated" arrival time (based on the speed value in the aircraft.txt file and the distance between airports), then the plane will never arrive, just "appear" at the gate. To check the error, uncheck the "Fixed ETA" box in AITM and see how much the arrival time changes. If it's more than 10-15 minutes, then this is probably the problem. Either change the flight's arrival time or (if lots of that plane's flights never arrive) change the cruise speed entry in the plane's aircraft. cfg file (and in the aircraft.txt file) so the fixed and calculated arrival times are closer together."
RPM.
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Post by Andy on May 5, 2007 11:50:32 GMT -5
So, is it indicated airspeed or true airspeed? Andy IAS..... If it's IAS then 250 isn't that unrealistic at cruise level! Andy
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Post by Andy on May 5, 2007 11:58:10 GMT -5
When I like to do some "AI spotting" I usually fire up FS, go to the location, then leave it for at least half an hour. I find that about 10 minutes wait time gets a reasonable flow going. When I fly, I set the initial time to ten minutes before departure while I go through the preliminaries. Thirty minutes is probably about right to get the maximum realistic traffic flow. Silly question: Is there some utility that allows you to view traffic from an airport's control tower? I normally slew my aircraft to the grass next to the active RWY but it would be better to view from the tower. Andy
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