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Post by jetstar on Jul 16, 2007 17:49:07 GMT -5
Anyone seen or have any flightplans from the 1980's for JAL? I looked at the usualy places but cannot find anything. I painted this today and will probably end up painting the rest of the fleet as I can't find anything for repaints, either. JAL B727-46 circa 1987 (first year of English titles?)  Hi Jason. I have a 1986 JAL Internationl timetable, not sure about domestic though I'll have to look to see if I have one. Paul |
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Post by sunking on Jul 17, 2007 5:48:25 GMT -5
Hi. Sorry to disapoint you. But, I´ve done the near complete JAL 1970´s Fleet for the Flightplan´s here at rai. The Filename at avsim: jal1974.zip Here´s the Link: library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=92365Regards. -STEFAN-SUN_KING- |
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Post by chrisP on Jul 17, 2007 5:55:43 GMT -5
Nice looking 727, Jason  |
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Post by Ralf Maylin on Jul 17, 2007 6:12:46 GMT -5
Cool repaint! Great metal, have to wear my Oakley.  |
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Post by 727pilot on Jul 17, 2007 7:16:40 GMT -5
Sorry to disapoint you. But, I´ve done the near complete JAL 1970´s Fleet for the Flightplan´s here at rai. -STEFAN-SUN_KING- I've had Stefan's JAL-Fleet in my AI-world for a long time now - he did a really good job! So this seems to be another issue of "double-painting", as discussed in another thread concerning Lufthansa-repaints. May be it would help to put some sort of information in the download-section stating which repaints are already available for the flightplans. Just an idea...  All the best! Michael |
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Post by chrisP on Jul 17, 2007 7:37:02 GMT -5
Sorry to disapoint you. But, I´ve done the near complete JAL 1970´s Fleet for the Flightplan´s here at rai. -STEFAN-SUN_KING- I've had Stefan's JAL-Fleet in my AI-world for a long time now - he did a really good job! So this seems to be another issue of "double-painting", as discussed in another thread concerning Lufthansa-repaints. May be it would help to put some sort of information in the download-section stating which repaints are already available for the flightplans. Just an idea... All the best! Michael Why should "multiple repaints" be a problem? |
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Post by sunking on Jul 17, 2007 8:25:45 GMT -5
It looks good. But still, I´d wish the same as Michael. Additionally, it may be better if you did paint for FP´s, where there are no paints are available at all. Just my 2 cents.  Regards. -STEFAN-SUN_KING- |
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Post by 727pilot on Jul 17, 2007 8:33:55 GMT -5
Hi Chris,
multiple repaints are absolutely no problem with me! In another thread you told us what your reasons are.
As I'm no painter I'm extremely grateful for every retro-repaint you guys put online!!! Thanks a lot!!! It's only that I sometimes ask myself: Why do some airlines get painted twice while others never seem to make it on the to-do-list...?
Kind regards!
Michael
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Post by sunking on Jul 17, 2007 9:27:36 GMT -5
Exactly, 727Pilot. That´s what I also always wonder about.
Regards.
-STEFAN-SUN_KING-
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Post by chrisP on Jul 17, 2007 10:01:06 GMT -5
It's only that I sometimes ask myself: Why do some airlines get painted twice while others never seem to make it on the to-do-list...? Ahh... the Question! (sorry for the delay in answering, but I wanted to write it up right) Each repainter/flightplanner has his own priorities and/or specialties. An excellent example is Tom Gibson's California Classics mission statement: "This page will generally be limited to post-WWII propliners that flew in or into California on a scheduled or regular charter basis, and US carriers will have priority."Why are there many flightplans without repaints and repaints without flightplans? It's far easier for the painters to get data on aircraft liveries than it is for flightplanners to obtain retro schedules. Furthermore, an "easy" airline for a painter can turn out to be quite difficult for a flightplanner (United and Allegheny are examples). The priorities of painters and flightplanners tend therefore to be different and be based on available data and difficulty levels rather than on "non-matching pairs". Why not announce in advance what we have planned? Because priorities change, some new juicy stuff might get listed on eBay, won and put on top of the heap, a new paintkit can become available and open new possibilities or our real life can interfere with FS. We've had airlines be announced and not released for a whole lot of excellent reasons. I just don't want to create false hopes and I'm willing to take my chances and risk someone releasing an airline I'm already working on (it's happened before). When I first got my international oag, my youngest son pointed out to me that one lifetime wouldn't be enough if I wanted to paint/code every airline in that book. I answered that I didn't intend to and that I would paint/code whatever I fancied, only that I could now fancy a lot more My own personal reasons for doing an airline: - it flew in the 70s into an airport where I spot
- I've got the flightplan data (oag or timetable)
- I've got paintkits for the required aircraft
(I might point out that I tend to use color-matched repaints, so that I will sometimes repaint the whole fleet even though some repaints are already available) Since I tend to spot at the hubs of the airlines I've done, I can confirm that the Universe is expanding As for maintaining a list of repaint-flightplans matches, on the practical side, I don't see Kristopher or anyone else checking avsim and flightsim.com regularly to see what new AI aircraft have been released in order to update the list of which could be used for existing flightplans... I hope that sheds some light on the darker side of our hobby Christian |
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Post by Christian Page, RAI on Jul 17, 2007 10:55:44 GMT -5
Echoing Christian, producing a list of available repaints would really be taxing my already limited time. If someone wants to take it upon themselves and do that, I will gladly turn it into HTML code and put it up on the site. One concern I've always had with this, though, is the matter of "favoritism" - that we may be appearing to favor one person's work over another when the reality is we that we just didn't know the other repaint was out there.
As far as double-painting goes, I have no issue with that - sometimes there were subtle differences in between planes that looked outwardly similar, such as having a name painted on the nose. For example, not all Southwest 737s are named, but a few are and reflect that with the name on the nose. To see one from a spotter's view, you probably wouldn't notice the name, but it's there. Then you also have slight scheme modifications that look much the same, but are different when you look close enough. One of these, which you don't have to look so close to notice is TWA's "twin stripe" livery. This came out in 1974 and had hollow titles on the fuselage. A few years later, TWA realized that the titles were hard to read at a distance (like that great big "TWA" on the tail didn't identify it well enough), so they went to solid titles. Using the newer scheme might not bother some people, but it bugs me - which is why I'm glad Raul did the hollow titles for his 1976 TWA package. United made a slight change as well, this one less obvious to the casual observer. When the orange, ed, and blue scheme debuted n 1974, the windows were inside the red line. Later, in the late 1980's, United moved the cheatline down a stripe so the windows were now in the orange stripe and enlarged the titles. Not a major difference in the overall picture, but important for period-accuracy. So, take a careful look at what seems to be a double paint - it could be a specialized aircraft or actually has a slight difference in the paint.
I'm not so big on color-matching because of the fact that, especially during the economic downturn of the 1970's, many planes in a fleet didn't match. The paint was allowed to fade to save money, so you ended up with different shades of color on otherwise identical aircraft. No where was this likely more obvious than with Braniff. The two-tone schemes faded rapidly under the weather conditions of their main route system through the central U.S. - IOW, they baked in the sun a lot. As a cost-saving move, Braniff took to just repainting the main door and the area around it - basically the area seen as a passenger boarded via a jetway. So, to the public, it looked like a shiny airplane, when, in reality, it was dingy and faded. Eastern was also notorious for this - they would only paint one side of their Electras - the side that faced the terminal - to save money. So, for that reason, it doesn't bother me when paints don't quite match. But, that's a personal taste.
The most important reason, IMO, regarding this matter is what I just referred to, personal taste. That's why we offer the raw, uncompiled packages rather than "turn-key" packages where you just copy the .bgl and the planes and go - this doesn't allow the less-advanced user any option in what plane is used, unless they know how to decompile and rewrite the various files needed to change the plane. And if we were to offer compiled plans, but no planes, you again run into that problem, and I'd probably be getting a lot of e-mails from people wondering why the AI doesn't show up and having to explain that the name of the plane in the Aircraft.txt file and the aircraft.cfg file must match exactly for it to work. This isn't a big issue, but it crops up - I suspect those who don't understand the workings of AI just don't bother with it, which is sad, IMO, but I can't walk everybody through installation and such on a one by one basis, either.
To close, RAI used to offer matched plane/FP packages - in fact it was a rule. But that rule was relaxed when it was realized that a small handful of painters just couldn't keep up with all the submissions. So, we went to the format we have now. I do like the idea of a page with all known repaints listed, but it is a time factor right now. If someone wants the job of checking Avsim and Flightsim.com for new paints as well as seeking out all those up to now for such a list, I'd welcome that.
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Post by Ralf Maylin on Jul 17, 2007 11:39:15 GMT -5
Some good points have been made here. Just to add something: I'm very well aware of the theory that we'll never have it complete, but with every flight plan and every repaint we come closer. I'm a very funny guy, sometimes I can't paint and every repaint I start does not look right to me, that is the time when I return to flight planing. Sometimes I can do 5 repaints in one week, sometimes I can do 1 in 3 weeks. And, to be more funnier now, sometimes I start working on the repaint without beeing happy with the result, if I'd continue, I would not be happy after 3 weeks, by doing a different one it clears my brain and works when I return to work on it again. I agree with Chris that it is extremly important that I have something "in common" with the things I'm working on. Maybe I have flown on this "repaint" or "timetable" or it just hits airports where I prefer spotting. If I'd do anything else instead the result would be worse. Just to explain my funny "releasing behaviour" and just in case I'll do a double one in the future. Given the handful "producers" here I think we release a lot. Thank you all for your contributions |
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Post by chrisP on Jul 17, 2007 12:27:18 GMT -5
Hi. Sorry to disapoint you. But, I´ve done the near complete JAL 1970´s Fleet for the Flightplan´s here at rai. Why would that disappoint me? Did I mention the 1970's? As far as double painting goes, this is from the 1980's, not the 1970's. 1987 to be exact (again, not the 1970's) OMG!! We all missed it! edit: except Paul ROFL!!! |
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Post by jetstar on Jul 17, 2007 12:43:44 GMT -5
Hi. Sorry to disapoint you. But, I´ve done the near complete JAL 1970´s Fleet for the Flightplan´s here at rai. Why would that disappoint me? Did I mention the 1970's? As far as double painting goes, this is from the 1980's, not the 1970's. 1987 to be exact (again, not the 1970's) Well I got it right!! Jason. Just dug out my JAL plans and they are from Nov1 to Dec 31st 1986, so close enough for 1987 repaints. Had a look inside and the domestic schedule is present as well. All Heavies!! The 727's do a few domestic link flights but seem to live in Seoul!! Great job on the metal textures. No dates, but I'll put them in the list to be started sooner rather than later. I have set myself a HEAVY schedule!! ;D Paul |
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Post by jetstar on Jul 17, 2007 13:17:39 GMT -5
Thanks, Paul. Sorry to sound so crass in my earlier post. No worries Jason Paul |
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